In the second part of this “Two Views” exchange, David Choat replies to James Caygill’s post.
First of all, I’d like to thank James for agreeing to participate in this ‘Two Views’ on GST exemptions. It’s not easy sticking your neck out and being the one to say ‘they’ve got it wrong’. As it happens, I think Labour have made the right move in deciding to remove GST from fresh fruit and vegetables, but I also think it’s important that progressives be willing to publicly debate the merits of initiatives like this. It’s more respectful to Labour (and the Greens) to assess their plans in a balanced way, than to feel that their merits are so fragile that only uniform unwavering praise from their supporters will get them through.
I can’t help thinking that a major part of James and my differing views on this initiative stems from our differing views on GST overall. At the risk of putting words in his mouth, James appears to see the establishment of a simple, exemption-free GST as an enduring achievement of the Fourth Labour Government. I have much more mixed feelings. I see GST as part of the Rogernomics reform of the tax system in the mid-1980s. And while I wouldn’t want to go back to all the complexities and rebates of the Muldoon-era tax system, the Rogernomics reform represented a significant rebalancing of our tax system in a less progressive direction, and was a major contributor to our becoming one of the most unequal societies in the OECD.
A combination of factors — including voter psychology, media ownership, the risk of capital strikes and perhaps some timidity on the part of progressives — mean that we are largely stuck with this settlement of a relatively flat income tax regime twinned with (regressive) GST.
So I don’t accept James’s dichotomy that we should either accept the current design of GST as sacrosanct or rethink it entirely. We don’t really have the freedom for the latter at this juncture, so we should treat GST as a not-particularly-beloved part of the furniture — not something we can easily get rid of, but something we have no compunctions about adding or removing the odd feature from, if it suits our current purposes.
So what about this particular proposed adjustment?
I’d accept James’s point that this isn’t necessarily the most brilliantly effective mechanism for redistributing money into the hands of the needy that could possibly be designed.
And that it isn’t necessarily the best mechanism conceivable for encouraging people to eating in a more healthy way either.
But I think it will make some progress on both those fronts. And not many initiatives have a ‘double-bang’ like that, especially on such important issues as those.
It also has the secondary attraction of acting as some form of repudiation to the Key-English-Hide government’s regressive and unpopular GST hike. Labour and the Greens were right to oppose the increase to 15% being imposed in the first place, but reversing it wholesale, as James suggests, would be a more messy prospect. Much of the so-called ‘tax switch’, other than for the very rich and the very poor, is largely ‘churn’, with Key-English-Hide giving with one hand and taking away with the other. But that means that reversing it would involve a lot of churn too.
Better to target the truly offensive aspects of the package (the impost on the poor, the giveaway to the rich) and put in place specific measures to address those (as Phil Goff has signalled by promising to restore the top tax rate). This initiative allows Labour to do that, without simply leaving the GST changes to stand untouched.
All of that adds up to quite an appealing résumé for a policy that, while costly, is not overwhelmingly expensive. A bit of context for that statement may be in order. My understanding is that taking GST off fresh fruit and vegetables would cost around $250-$300 million a year. That’s around about the amount of additional funding Labour put into schools and early childhood education in Budget 2008 (which included SchoolsPlus), or the (operating balance) impact of interest-free student loans. It is small enough to be paid for (albeit with considerable difficulty) out of the $1.1 billion (ongoing) already set aside for Budget 2012. Working for Families, by contrast, had a full-impact cost of $1.1 billion a year for the initial policy in Budget 2004 plus an extra $500 million a year for the extension promised in Labour’s 2005 manifesto. And the personal income tax cuts in Budget 2010 had a full-impact cost of $4.3 billion a year.
Returning to the GST exemption impact on redistribution and health, I should add that I’m also a bit more positive about this measure’s likely affects than James. He contrasts the exemption unfavourably with HEHA (Healthy Eating/Healthy Action), but I’m not so sure. There were some good measures in HEHA but my impression is that it was pretty targeted and reliant on public education and exhortation, which I tend to be a bit sceptical of. But James knows this area better than me, so I’m happy to stand corrected.
I’m pretty confident, though, that one important thing that HEHA didn’t do is alter the relativities between fresh food and fast food, which I see as one of the most important underlying drivers of our obesity troubles. As I often do, let me turn to Matthew Yglesias who shares the following graph (from David Leonhardt) showing the divergence between fresh fruit and vegetable prices and those of other food and beverages (especially fizzy drinks) in the US over the last thirty years:
In that context, I think there’s a real value in measures that try to target price directly. (And since the impact while be disproportionately upon the poor, who spend more of their income on groceries, I prefer a GST-free carrot to the stick of ’sugar taxes’.)
In terms of the policy’s other impact, on people’s pockets, James prefers a continuation of the sort of direct redistribution that progressive governments have focussed on recent years, through tax credits (like Working for Families) or targeted tax cuts. I hope we’ll see some of this in future, too, but one of the emerging themes on Policy Progress recently is that those sort of measures will not be enough on their own. We’ve seen that in the reflections of James Purnell, in the guest-posts of David Craig, and even from new UK Labour leader Ed Miliband.
The amount of change to our income distribution needed to make New Zealand a decent egalitarian society again; the limitations of trying to sail against the tide of market forces that are pushing widening income dispersal (without trying to change that tide); and the greater legitimacy that people ascribe to what seem to be market allocations of income. All these suggest that we need to widen the set of mechanisms we bring to bear on tackling inequality.
Obviously, simply removing GST from fresh fruit and vegetable is not The Answer to that challenge. But anything sensible we can to positively impact the distribution of disposable income in a way that supplements more direct measures should be welcome (especially if it doesn’t attract howls that we’ve “turned people into beneficiaries”).
Finally, I should address James’s challenge that the policy simply won’t work: supermarkets will pocket some or all of the reduction, so there will be minimal effect on prices. This is essentially an empirical question, so I did a quick search on Google Scholar. This quote from a paper from Latvian economist Alf Vanags seems to sum up the state of literature:
Hard evidence is somewhat thin on the ground but the studies cited in Blundell (2009) suggest that for “many goods we should expect a full pass on” (p 33) and that pass through is unlikely to be less than 75%.
This broad view is also taken by Copenhagen Economics (2007) who note “there is little doubt that permanently lowering the VAT rate on a particular good (or service) sooner or later will lead to a reduction in the price of the good more or less corresponding to the monetary equivalent of the lower VAT rate. If the VAT rate goes down by 10 percentage points on a good with a before tax price of €100, the price paid by the consumer will sooner or later drop by €10 for the vast majority of products. In economics jargon, there will be a strong tendency towards full pass-through” (p9).
I’m not claiming that GST-exemption on fresh fruit and vegetables is the best policy Labour has ever come up with, or that it should be the central plank of their election campaign. I’m certainly hoping for more from the next progressive government than cheaper groceries. But I think this initiative will be a worthwhile component within a broader suite of policies.
Coming up: short replies from both James and David.
Tags: fresh fruit and vegetables, GST, Matthew Yglesias, obesity, pass-through, redistribution

If we want poorer people to have a fairer proportion of society’s resources is being the party of the cheaper apple the best way to go?
I haven’t done the work to understand why cheaper FF&V is considered an important part of getting people to live more healthily. I’m now mildly interested so if there’s a link to the key factors it would be useful to put it up. My first reaction is that I suspect governments are politically unwilling to sheet home the responsibility of gross decisions on voters – for example by restricting support and operations for the adult obese, smokers, drinkers, etc.
I am also ignorant what proportion of these groups hold responsibility for their actions as opposed to other factors (genuine health problems causing obesity), but I can’t help thinking of the Ricky Gervais line “It’s not a disease”. It might be, a bit, I’d like to know how much. Anyway, there’s a genuine question of how much personal responsibility do adults hold for their condition in life that should be part of this discussion.
The graph showing relative price change of types of food was interesting. It shows that it is cheap to get a lot of calories that you don’t need, now. If people hadn’t chosen soft drinks then I imagine the relative price would have remained higher. If the US governments hadn’t supported high-fructose corn syrup then obesity may be less and relative price for soft drinks higher, and so it goes.
I wonder whether the FF&V gst policy is very important at all for obesity.
I don’t mind Stuart’s ‘magic number’ argument as James puts it. There are magic numbers where behaviours radically change. This might be it; I don’t know – is there any evidence? In terms of redistribution the argument from Dave seems to be that consumption tax is anti-progressive so this reduction is good (and it’s a double whammy so even better). It might be OK in terms of current politics – differentiation and all that. My question would be whether this is the best use of the money.
I get back to my cheap shot about whether Labour is the party of the cheaper apple. I see this policy decision, and the Earthquake Act decision, as tactical responses to current politics. I don’t see a narrative emerging that talks about what we are about (which is what this site does well) that doesn’t care about the electoral cycle. I wonder if Labour is focused on attempting to re-gain power in 2011 rather than creating a new enduring reason to be Labour.
Thanks to both of you for thought provoking commentary.
I never had much faith in the last Labour Government’s strategy “Healthy Eating – Healthy Action”. The policy was a collection of ten or so initiatives which each represent good starts, but none nor the group as a whole, were really going to address the obesity problem in a meaningful way. For example it included fruit in (some) schools, breastfeeding initiatives, green prescriptions, a food industry accord, research and finally a national cycling awareness week (really, is anyone unaware of cycling?). All good stuff, but nowhere near bold enough.
So I support removing GST from FFV because it finally represents getting serious about obesity and proposing an intervention that has both scale and impact. The measure would be instantaneously applied nationwide (compare that to initiating exercise or diet programs even if done through schools) and the study done by Auckland and Otago Universities is compelling evidence of the policy’s impact when coupled with other interventions.
In other words – this will be money wasted if it’s the sum total of a future Labour govt’s efforts in obesity prevention. But I fear this might be the one ‘easy win’ policy – the one anti obesity action from government that could be popular. But then what We have to ask are we bold enough to advocate the other changes to eating and activity that will make a meaningful difference. And that will mean spending money to make room for cyclists on roads, regulating against the most egregious examples of marketing trashy food to kids, and regulating against excessive energy density in foods. I have tried to think about Darel Hall’s comments on Libertarian Paternalism elsewhere on this blog, and to apply them to this situation but haven’t come up with anything likely to have great impact.
So then, we’re back contemplating the question of government’s role in telling people what’s good for them, so-called Nanny State-ism. I do not think it is sustainable in the long term for Labour to avoid this conversation. Either we accept that meaningful solutions require intervention and start building that consensus with the public, or concede that we have nothing different to offer on chronic disease prevention. The latter option is a mistake, because chronic disease prevention is the health challenge of the coming century and I believe the left should seek to remain the more credible government for achieving a healthy society. Dare I say it – we can’t have our cake and eat it.
Having said that, the conversation cannot start where it was left by the last government. I suggest, instead, we start by thinking about food and activity as positive parts of the New Zealand identity, in a way that is inclusive of poor and working class Kiwis.
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One Libertarian Paternalism policy, which probably doesn’t have to be made, is to ensure there is a healthy drink option where there is a soft drink option – preferably in the same machine. A better LP approach makes the default option the healthy option so you have to choose to be unhealthy, ie make an effort. I noticed in our extensive stay at CHCH Women’s that there are no full sugar soft drinks, or if they are they are well hidden and there are none in the main cafe there. (By the by, there is a one dollar Pepsi Max machine but only one). That’s probably going further than the Nudge authors would feel comfortable with, but hey, it’s a hospital – you can still get a soft drink but only one without sugar.
An LP approach might be where a school decides it wants to use its “donations” to pay for fruit breaks rather than another new computer. No one has to have an apple but the default option is to eat one.
I suppose you could argue that no gst on FF&V is an LP policy but it’s a long chain to get there.
Maybe someone else has creative LP solutions.
I also think Nanny needs to be a bit more of a bitch to adults. Ignorance is not our problem, motivation is.